Joni: 

Hi, this is Dr. Joni Watson. Welcome to The Handoff, the podcast for nurse leaders brought to you by Works. I'm thrilled to introduce our episode guest today. We are excited to have Dr. Maurice “Mo” Brownlee, a dynamic healthcare leader, joining us. Dr. Brownlee is not only a board certified HIV specialist and the founder and president of Wellness Homes of Chicago, but he also holds a doctorate in business administration, bringing a unique blend of medical expertise and strategic vision to his work. With over a decade of experience as a sub investigator for clinical research efforts aimed at improving medication for individuals living with HIV AIDS, Dr. Brownlee is at the forefront of medical innovation. His commitment to healthcare equity and social justice is evident in his role as a fellow of the Patient Safety Fellowship of the American Hospital Association and the National Patient Safety Foundation at Wellness Homes of Chicago. Dr. Brownlee has developed a groundbreaking model of care that addresses health disparities and societal injustices within healthcare. This includes a focus on LGBTQ patients and those living with HIV AIDS, with Dr. Brownlee currently overseeing the care of over 100 HIV-positive patients. In today's episode, we will discuss the intersection of healthcare and equity, exploring the transformative potential of community home care models. Join us as we gain insights from Dr. Maurice Brownlee's wealth of experience and expertise in creating inclusive and effective healthcare solutions. Welcome, Dr. Brownlee. Thank you for joining us today.

Mo: 

Wow, thank you. Thank you for that intro. Wow.

Joni: 

Absolutely. Absolutely. I've been looking forward to this. 

Mo:

Yeah, I'm so excited to be here.

Joni:

Excellent, excellent. So, Dr. Brownlee, you often go by “Mo,” is it okay if I call you Mo throughout our time today?

Mo: 

I appreciate that. That is my preference.

Joni: 

Excellent. Thank you so much. So you have a pretty incredible care model in Chicago. For all of our listeners, can you please give us an overview of your care model, what it looks like for people to receive care in your locations, and really what inspired this model and how has it impacted your patients and community? I know that's a lot.

Mo:

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it can be summed up very quickly, in a word and that is “home.” So one of the things I identified, as you said, I've been in healthcare for a very long time. I've worked in all different facets while I was going through school, believe it or not, I was sitting in the cube in the finance department at a hospital. So I've been all over healthcare and I think that's good in that I now know, or I know what it takes in order to keep patients engaged in this healthcare model and particularly those patients that we identify to be at risk. So when we talk about that one word I was telling you about, and that is home. So the Wellness Homes of Chicago, what I went back and I did and I just thought about what made me happy, what made me comfortable and content. 

And every time I did it, Joni, I just continued to think of home. And so what I did was I took away all the street chairs that were in my office. I took away everything that was resembling a clinic as much as I could without breaking down infection control barriers and so on and so forth. I took it away and I wanted my patients to have a sense of home when they came to my environment, when they came to my milieu, I wanted them to feel comfortable. I wanted them to be okay. Weighty, right?

Joni:

Yes. 

Mo: 

When we are in this home environment, it is crazy for us to think that we're going to go to the doctor and we're going to be out in five minutes while you are waiting. I wanted you to be comfortable. Not only that, I wanted you to want to come because there is a big push for me on preventive care. And so in order for me to get you to come and be okay with staying, be okay with engaging with your providers, I created a model that was just that, like home. So we took away the scrub coats. We don't do scrub jackets. We took away the straight chairs. We took away anything, as I just said, that resembled a clinic and we brought in all feelings of home. So we softened up our colors, we improved our meal use. I practice aromatherapy. So we make sure that our scents throughout our Wellness Home, we make sure that it's inviting. And our receptionist, one of the things that she or he says is “Welcome Home.” All our patients, brand new patients, I do something. And again, you got to be real careful because creating an environment like this can also sometimes toe the line with HIPAA..

But I stop all my staff. I say, “You guys, let's welcome Joanne Bloom to our family.” And everybody would just stop what they're doing and clap and say “Welcome Home.” And so that's just some of the things we do. 

And when we talk about that our patients, they're so much more likely to enjoy coming to the office. They're so much more likely to want to be a part of the environment. That's what got me started. So that was that phase. 

So, now what I needed to do was create the same environment for my employees. And so on the flip side of that, we do the same thing for our employees. So it's a win-win situation, and that's what the Wellness Home is about.

Joni: 

Oh my goodness. I mean, you just described what I think is many nurses' ideal of where they would want to work and the kind of work they would want to do. I know as I've built programs and services, I have tried, maybe not to the extent that you have, you're stretching my thinking, which I love. But I've tried to build programs and services for my own family. What would I want for my own family or for me to get care?

Mo: 

Exactly.

Joni: 

Wow, you have just taken this to a whole new level, really. I mean, you mentioned your inspiration was really just you. It's very similar to me thinking what would I want? And so I'm curious, you haven't always been based in Chicago. You've done healthcare all really across the United States and in your career, you've aimed to provide care that really transcends societal categories, focusing simply on people without labels. And how has this approach influenced the care you and your team provide and the relationships that you build with your patients?

Mo: 

So one of the things throughout my career, I grew up in the projects in a very small town called Hampton. I'm from the south, and I guess if I keep talking, you can, if you can’t already, you'll be able to hear it. But Hampton, Georgia. So I grew up in this town. We had a little small project in Hampton, Georgia, and I'm from that neighborhood and I grew up with my mother, she didn't work, and we were on Medicaid. And Joni, one of the things I noticed very early on, it brings back memories. Now, I didn't tell you about this when we spoke before, and you better get ready for this. There's probably some stuff that I did tell you before that I'm going to tell you now, but I can remember realizing that when I took my Medicaid card into the doctor's office, that I did get treated differently than other people. And you're going to say, “Well, how did you know that other people got treated well? I oftentimes would go to the doctor with a relative who didn't have Medicaid, but I always would see that there was a difference in the way that I was treated. I would always, when I go get my medications, I would always have to get different type of medications from my cousins because they were not on Medicaid, and they would always, believe it or not Joni, they would get well quicker than I would. So, I realized early on that there was a difference. There was some form of disparity. I didn't know what the word was then, but I just knew that there was a difference. And I knew that I didn't like going to the doctor and I didn't like going to the doctor partly because of what I felt, but I also didn't like the environment. And so all through my life when I began to go into the medical field, I just gravitated to providing services for those who were just less fortunate. And one of the things that I tried to do was to provide equitable treatment to everybody, whether you came in with a commercial card, paying card or whether you came in with the Medicaid card, because that didn't matter to me.

Oftentimes nurses don't know that end of it, but if you look at a patient's face sheet, you can see that part of it. But for me, it didn't matter whether Joann Bloom came in with a Medicaid card or a Medicare card, everybody got treated the same. And so that's what I tried to provide. And it was difficult knowing that I couldn't go to all the doctors that my cousin went to because his mother had different insurance, and oftentimes they had more choices than I did. But I wanted to change that. And so when I got into the medical field, that was one of the things that I aimed to do when we developed the Wellness Home. Getting back to that, that was something that I wanted to change Joni, but I had to figure out how to do that. Right? Because even with you saying this, it sounds good. It sounds rosy, right? 

Joni: 

Yes. 

Mo: 

It sounds good, right? But the reality is you got to get paid. And believe it or not, it's hard. It's hard unless you get some type of subsidy, it's hard to take care of patients the way you need to when you are providing service for a specific population, and I don't care what you say, it is hard. You got to have more resources, right? 

Joni: 

Yes. 

Mo: 

In one setting, you may need to have caseworkers, you may need to have navigators. Who's going to pay for that? And so the reality is, I wanted to provide those services. And so that's what the Wellness Home came from, that's how it came, and that's how we rule this whole network that we're growing right now. 

But as a child, I did recognize that there were differences, and I wanted to make those changes going through nursing school, going through all of my career, that is what I fought for. That is what I try to implement to make sure no matter who you are, regardless of your color, regardless of your insurance, regardless of your sex, your creed, whatever it was, that didn't make a difference for me. And I dared any one of my staff to allow me to know that it made a difference for one of them because the ultimate goal was to get people well and keep 'em well.

Joni: 

Man. No, that is so beautiful. I mean, the way that equity is just a normal part of your care, that takes intention for it to be a normal part of care. But wow, that is absolutely incredible. And I can't help but think that because you have diversity in your degrees as well, thank goodness. Thank goodness for that diversity to be able to think differently about payers and how do we sustain innovation? How do we take care of all of these?

So, while you were created on purpose for a purpose, that is absolutely beautiful. I love that. Now, when we have spoke before you, and it's even in the name of the programs and the services that you've built, wellness, I mean, that is an incredible word, has so many different connotations and feelings for me as a nurse, you have mentioned the desire to be a catalyst for those thinking wellness, which there have been inequities in wellness services and programs and care across many different populations. And right now as health related social needs, social determinants of health are kind of in the limelight these days. How do you balance educating patients and encouraging self-responsibility in their health journey, especially considering social determinants of health or health related social needs?

Mo: 

Joni, you went there. I don't remember you talking about this before.

Joni: 

You talked about it before. 

Mo: 

Wow.

Joni: 

Yes. About how you educate and hold people accountable in your perspective on this.

Mo: 

Yeah. So listen, that lets you know that's a warm spot in my heart because the minute you said that, I was like, “Oh My God.” So I talked so much until I kind of forgot that piece. But nevertheless. 

So listen, self-responsibility is so important. And so when we talk about social determinants of needs, I want everybody to be able to assess those things. How does that look for each organization is going to be different? Do you have to pull out a tool and check the boxes? No. In nursing, we are so procedure driven, and there is a tool, by the way, to assess social determinants of needs. But the reality is oftentimes we don't get credit for it unless we have a checkoff sheet, right? 

Joni: 

Yes.Preach.

Mo: 

Yes. Yeah, I get it. I get it. But what I'm asking people to do is to be real with it, right? Check and see if Ms. Betsy is okay at home. Check and see if Ms. Betsy is okay. Does she have a way to get back and forth to her appointments? That is the social determinant piece of it. But as a provider, as a nurse, after you've done that part, I then switch over to the patient. And what I do, Joni, is I teach as much self responsibility as I can. Now, part of that, Joni, is this, it is empowering. I have to empower that patient to be a part of the healthcare team. And sometimes it is hard. I get it. Sometimes it's hard, but that's the first thing I do. But after I've done my part and I've assessed some of those issues and those social needs, I then got to hold my patients responsible. And I got to Joni, I got to. And the reason why is because if I am accommodating and I'm making it okay for you to come in 10 minutes late, and I am assessing to whether or not you got food and your transportation is okay, the least I'm going to need you to do for me is to make sure that you're following our treatment plan. I need you to do that for me, Joni. And I express that to my patient. And that's that whole responsibility piece. And it's not to be bashing a patient, it's just simply teaching them.

So what I do is I teach it. I teach it, and I teach it, Joni, when I do my referrals and I'm sending a patient to the cardiologist or the endocrinologists, and I don't want them to be gaslit, I teach them, I said, “Here's what I want you to do. Number one, I want you to brown paper bag your medications. That's number one. I don't want you to try to remember your medications. Take 'em. Number two. Here are the questions that I want you to make sure you ask. I said, take out your phone. I want you to put 'em in your phone, and I want you to ask these questions. This is teaching them the self responsibility that they need, right? Yes. And this is making sure that they can be empowered to do exactly what they need. Now, do we all have time to do this every visit? No, we don't. And that's reality. But you got to teach some of that. If you don't, Joni, they're never going to learn. Patients will do if you educate 'em.

Joni: 

I'm curious, do you think that your environment makes a difference in how people receive your education?

Mo:

I do. I do. I do. I do. Because even though I need to see patients, I don't put a timeframe on my visits. If I have a patient who was ready for their appointment and they were there on time, I may not allow your appointment to spill over into the other patient's appointment. I will ask you to go sit in the lobby and when I get a break, I'll come back to you and we'll do part two. And that part two may be very brief, but when we talk about the environment that fosters, you know what? Mo is really concerned about me, so I'm going to be concerned about myself and I'm going to wait on Mo till he give me these instructions that I need. I'm going to wait on. And so that's what that do. And so when we talk about the environment, you are absolutely right. And it's just not about the ambiance. It's also about the culture, right? Yes. And so you've got to put those pieces in place. And so that's what I try to do. So then getting back to the ambiance, I make it nice for you while you wait.

Joni: 

Yeah, that's incredible. I just want to make it very clear and explicit to listeners, because I've had a chance to read about you and talk to you and kind of dig into your work over a couple of different methods the last several weeks. I just want to make it explicit that you see patients of all payer status.

Mo: 

Yeah, absolutely. We even see patients for free.

Joni:

So you have this really unique mixed healthcare model. And it's interesting to me because I have worked and served and built programs for specific populations that had a very narrow payer source. We only accepted X, Y, Z, and that is on a broad continuum over the course of my career, and I've seen the kind of inequities that it can create across the whole spectrum when we build programs just for the Medicare population, just for the Medicaid population, just for people without any insurance at all. And so you have this beautiful blend of a mixed model, a mixed payer source. And what I particularly appreciate when I've talked with you before is that you really work to dismantle the stigma within this model, and you take care of some populations that, let's be real, have some serious stigma attached to them when it comes to healthcare and just really society in general. Honestly. Can you tell us how you create a space where hate isn't welcome in that environment and how that work has influenced the care provided and the community's response when they step into your environment?

Mo: 

You start with self, very important. You definitely start with self. And once you start with self, you then go to your staff, your providers, and you make sure that every ounce of what you breathe, what you say, who you are, that that is demonstrated from day to day and it's consistent. That is so important. And so you are absolutely right. It is so crazy sometimes for me to go into one of my waiting areas to see a very, very vibrant transgender woman with loud colors next to the cisgender man with muscles next to an Asian American next to a Latino American. That to me just warms my heart. You got to build it in such a way that everybody feels as if that they're truly welcome and your staff too. You got to make sure that that's equitable. So if you are going to serve the Latino population, you got to make sure that you have Latino staff. If you're going to serve the Asian population, you got to make sure you Asian American staff or whatever, you got to make sure that that blend is there. You cannot have a homogeneous staff in terms of race, color, sex, or gender.

When I purchased this practice that I'm currently at right now, we were, in fact, most of the staff, they were white men who served mostly white men, and there was a disparity. And the people who wanted to come, they didn't per se feel all that welcome. And I have to say, my mentor, he did a great job. It's just the way things have happened over the years. But there are some populations, some people just didn't feel comfortable with coming. And it may have just been totally perception, but that's what it was. And so what I had to do was I had to break that down. I hired the very first female doctor that this practice has ever had, and this practice has been in operations for over 35 years. The very first female doctor. Wow. And let me tell you, when I tell you that it wasn't well received, they were like, what are you doing? What are you doing? I said, well, women need health as well. How could you be equitable and inclusive? And you're leaving out women's health, right?

Joni:

Right. Yeah.

Mo: 

She's been with us for three years now and everybody loves her now. She came into this and she felt like a lone ranger, but she was the very first one. Now we have a female NP. We have a female PA. It's awesome. We have a transgender spokesperson, and one of our campaigns is going to come out over the next week, and our transgender spokesperson, she will be speaking on that campaign. It is just awesome. Again, you create that by making sure that your staff is also, you have an equitable staff. And it is hard, right? It's hard sometimes because you want to hire the brightest and you want to hire the best, but sometimes you just have to be intentional with who you hire because in order to breathe to live what you believe in, you got to make sure that your staff demonstrates that as well.

Joni: 

Yeah, absolutely. And it's incredible what happens when we build teams intentionally and we pour into those people to make sure that they are the best and the brightest, and they're providing the best care possible. You mentioned Mo, that it starts with self. And this whole season we've really been focused on leadership as a behavior in a lot of different ways. I am curious because there will be literally thousands of nurses and healthcare leaders listening to this episode. What does it look like and sound like for me to focus on myself from a perspective of working to dismantle stigma?

Mo: 

Yeah. So none of this is possible without you checking yourself first. So you definitely have to check your bias, your biases, where you're coming from and own it. Own it, own it. It's hard. Own it. Hard work. It is. It is. But that is the most important thing. Every time you see a transgender person, if you get a little queasy, check yourself, identify why you feel that way and why are you uncomfortable? And then you work hard, you work towards it, but the mere fact that you're able to do the work or you are at least identifying that, Hey, this is me. That's important. Those biases have no place in healthcare, none. It has no place in healthcare. And Joni, we all have been to a provider, whether you believe it or not, that has many, many biases that is. And so it's just with me, I was able to tell it. I was able to see it because I knew what it was. I knew how it felt. I knew how it tastes, I knew how it smelled. But many of us have been to many providers who have biases. For myself, if I know that I have a provider who's working on him or herself, I am proud because none of us are perfect. None of us is perfect, none of us. If you're working towards it, then I will work towards it with you. So that's from A to Z, whatever it is. Because biases come in many shapes and fashions, right? 

Joni: 

Yes. Absolutely.

Mo: 

Right. You may be somebody that don't like tattoos. I mean, it is what it is, right?

Joni:

Absolutely. 

Mo:

Check yourself. That's the number one recommendation I can give and be willing to work on yourself.

Joni: 

That is good guidance. Thank you for that. It is hard work to do that, but it's required. I mean, we have an ethical imperative to provide care for everyone. So yeah, I mean, I am usually a pretty reflective person, but make no mistake, reflection is hard because it's hard to really stand in the mirror with yourself and realize, oh my goodness, I do have this bias. And then once you realize it, what are you going to do about it?

Mo: 

Whatcha going to do about it? 

Joni: 

It's good stuff. So I know that we both love community care. I think community care is just magical when the people that you're taking care of, I feel like a flip, a switch just flips in teams. When you're going to see that person on the street, in the grocery store, in a club or wherever it is, something happens, I feel like. And so you have mentioned before how, and honestly, I have struggled with this. I've wrestled with this concept. I'm not going to lie, but I appreciate that there's beauty in the tension of this. 

Mo: 

Yep. 

Joni: 

You have mentioned before that community care can both propel care forward and it can deter care. So can you talk more about this tension in community care and some thoughts on it?

Mo: 

Yeah, yeah. So Joni, I think definitely in the communities where we're so quick to put community care, right? 

Joni: 

Yes.

Mo: 

Oftentimes we don't realize, and it may not be the majority, but it's certainly something Joni that we got to start thinking about. And so we are so quick sometimes to put these Ryan White clinics and these other community care clinics in neighborhoods thinking that patients or residents within the community will use them. And by far, I think the intention is great. The problem we have is that there is a sector of patients that will not step foot into those places for various reasons, particularly Joni when they're dealing with stigmatized diseases and chronic diseases. Take for example, you have Bobby. Bobby has HIV, HIV is extremely stigmatized. And Bobby, he doesn't have a car and Bobby has no other place to go, but he does have community care. Bobby refused to go to that clinic because Bobby's mother's best friend is an MA in that clinic. And so Bobby will wait until his disease has progressed to an extremely worsened state before he steps foot into that clinic.

Bobby will use the ER as his primary care. Bobby will not work on preventive health things because he won't go to the place where he needs to go. So when we talk about community care, although it's great, I think for certain populations, certain at risk groups, we just have to be intentional. And we got to know that when we are talking about these diseases and chronic diseases that are stigmatized, not all people are going to use them. And so what are we going to do for that population? So I give you a case in point. One of my locations is on the north side and the south side. When we talk about HIV and AIDs, when we talk about the clustering of this disease, obviously you're going to get a little bit more on the south side of town per the CDC latest mapping. And rightfully so based on the trends we're seeing now with IV in HIV medicine and HIV care.

Well, you would think that those are the places where we need to have these clinics. Well, we have or had a great number of people who are leaving their neighborhoods wanting to come out of their neighborhoods to get care for those very specific reasons because they did not want to run into their mother's friends, their sister's friends in those clinics. And so we got to think about that. And so for my Southside location, I was very intentional on where I placed it. I did not place it directly into the neighborhood, but I put it in such a position where people were able to come out of their neighborhoods, but still be on the south side. So I think that when we are building and we're creating, those are the things that we need to think about when we talk about those specific programs because those specific populations are the ones who are going to enter the hospital, the sickest.

Joni: 

So there you have it. Wow. I must say you have really given me some great food for thought, which I really appreciate as I've worked to build programs and services. I don't think I'll ever view community care the same way after talking with you. And that's a great thing. So thank you for seeding my thoughts and my work. So there is so much about your work, Mo, and your care. It just resonates with me. And I love the way that you think. You are a different thinker, Mo, than a lot of leaders. And I'm always curious about what other leaders read or do to sharpen their skills. I mean, you are clearly not only a clinician, but you are an innovator, an entrepreneur. What are you reading or learning about these days to stir your divergent thinking? Or what are you doing to feed your soul and to spur your thinking? Any recommendations for us today? 

Mo: 

Yeah. So I know you guys probably want this that I'm reading Economics Today or… 

Joni: 

No. Whatever.

Mo: 

Or the Harvard Journal or all this good stuff. I have to tell you though, and that's why I like what you do, Joni, is you do allow your guests to be totally transparent. And me being totally transparent, I have to work on that. I have to work on me. I am in a space right now where I have to do that. And so as your listeners listen to this, know that you definitely, in order for you to be productive as a leader, you gotta have that me time. So what's different about me is that I recognize that I need it. And so when you ask me what I do for some reason what I need, it's just quiet time. And so how I get that Joni is I will ride in the car with everything off. I will have a pen in my right hand and a piece of paper on the console of my car. And for whatever reason, those moments of solice, my ideas will come to my mind. 

Joni: 

I love that. 

Mo: 

And so I will have, and your listeners can't see this, but I'm going to show you, I will have a little pad like this, and sometimes it's a napkin, and I will sketch out my ideas, my thoughts, but it's that quiet time that I need. The most innovative programs that I've written, I have written while I'm on the plane because I was away. And believe it or not, you may say, well, on the plane, well, I have my headphones on and I'm away, and it's me, right? 

Joni: 

Yeah. Totally.

Mo: 

To your listeners, I got to be transparent. I have to work on that. And so that's part of what we've been talking about and that's realizing what needs to happen. For the last three years, I focused so much on building this whole wellness home model until there's been very little time, right?

Joni: 

Yeah. 

Mo: 

But when I've been most innovative, when I've been most creative, when I need to write a program, I don't go read the journals or anything like that. What I do is I get time to myself. And again, it may not be as formal as you think. I don't go and get in a pool, sometimes it's just me driving. And so Mo has to work on that part, but I got to tell you, I got to tell you, I'm working on that part. But for me, that's where I am. 

And so reading and all that other great stuff, I do catch, but I catch on the whim. I love the news. I am a news junkie. So while I'm preparing myself for work, every morning I try to catch some parts of the news. Now, what I won't do is I won't get all undressed into the news. I always try to get the first five to 10 minutes of the news, and I do both local and national news. And then my reading, I catch as I'm going. I learn a lot, believe it or not, Joni, from my patients, I learn so much from my patients.

Joni:

I was just about to ask you about that. I mean, you have quite the patient population around you. And so this is the whole reason why I ask those questions is because I'm just always curious about how leaders are shaped and formed and how they continue on. And it's been so cool. Every single guest has answered differently. Yes, there are recommendations for books and podcasts and things like that, but I love that every leader kind of knows themselves and what works well for them. And there's actually great evidence to show that periods of silence and rest for curiosity and innovation. So do you just have napkins and stacks of paper and ideas all around? 

Mo: 

I do. I wish you could see it. And in one breath, Joni though, in one breath, I'm going to tell you this, and this is going to be so different to your listeners, but in one breath, I really don't want to know what other people are doing.

‍Joni: 

Oh, I love that. Because in some sense, you limit yourself, right? 

Mo: 

Yes. You begin to think, oh, that person did that. So I can't do it if I don't know what the next person is doing. Joni, I'm so inept to go out and try to do it. So lemme tell you a secret. Lemme tell you a secret really fast. Lemme tell you a secret. So the other day we identified that we're trying to put people on prep and that there's this big disparity with prep, right? And we had a little session where we tried to invite people who wanted to know about this long acting prep because Joni, we thought that once we introduced this long acting prep, we thought that the population that needed the most would be in awe in trying to get it right. Of course, it didn't happen like that. In fact, Joni, it happened the other way around. Now, Joni get this, not only, not only is there an option that you don't have to take every day to prevent HIV, there's an option now that provides the flexibility of just simply not even having to think about it. You get the injection, and now it's also on Medicaid formulary. So the population that's unlikely to have coverage, actually have coverage. So Joni, here's what the deal was. So through this little, I would say this little session that we had, we identified that, hey, we identified that people don't like the hustle and bustle of having to come into the office, having to wait, having to, it's another appointment, and they have to do this every two months. So from this meeting that I had, we're developing a new location that's just for these injectables and we'll calling it The Wellness Home of North Star. Rapid patients are going to be able to come in and get injectables, long-acting injectables for prep and long-acting injectables for HIV without the hassle.

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And so Joni, they're going to be able to do it in the evening times and on weekends. But all of this came from just having a talk. And I didn't want to know what other people were doing. This is just something that came from talking. And so had I been listening to how other people are doing their stuff, I would've just totally fell off the, I would've told someone, well, this cannot happen. This cannot happen. And so I didn't want to be tied up to other people's thoughts, what other people are doing. So I don't really like to know what a whole lot of people are doing. I like to know some mistakes that people made so I don't make the same mistakes. I get it. But when we're talking about innovation, I really like to be geared by this inner stuff that's inside of me.

And I tell your listeners, if you got any nurses, entrepreneurs, any healthcare providers who want to get out on their own, and you are scared because it didn't work for Dr. John or it didn't work for Paul. And let me just tell you, if you're an MP and you said, well, the neurologist in town couldn't make it happen, how could I? Don't you think about that? Don't think about that. Don't even listen to that. You go get that thing and you go get it yourself. And you don't listen to nobody but your inner self. Because here's my belief. My belief is this, Joni, somebody, if you're spiritual, I'm spiritual. So I would say, God put it in me. And if he put it in me, oh, Joni, I'm going to work that thing. I'm going to work it till I can't work it no more. And so had I listened to people, had I listened to people, oh, look at this, Joni, had I listened to people, I would not own two practices. Right now, this little old boy from Hampton, Georgia who grew up in a town on welfare, on Medicaid, oh, glory. Listen to this.

Had I listened, had I listened because I was told many a times that I couldn't do it, right? 

Joni: 

Yeah. So good Mo. So good. I think we're going to have to overlay this with some organ music or something. It's so good. I mean, I too agree. I have a DNP, which is focused on the evidence, right? We've got to pull the evidence into practice much faster. But as an innovator, I too wait to look at the evidence until after we've talked with people, after team members have brainstormed, after patient groups and populations have brainstormed because we are mirroring people. We are designed to mirror one another. We are. And so I often think, oh my goodness, if I read some of that beforehand, I mean without me even knowing it, right? It's just implicit. It's going to seed my thinking. And so I love the way that you think. So thanks for answering transparently and authentically, Mo. That's incredible. And so you have already given us so much great information, but I'm curious, what would you ultimately like to handoff to nurse leaders at all levels and in every setting, listening today?

Mo: 

Yeah, nursing is powerful. I would not be where I am today had I not started my career as a CNA, as an LPN. It is powerful. It is the only profession where you have just, not only the flexibility, but the ability to be so many different things. What I would tell nurse leaders today, rock, innovate, innovate, and innovate. It is so awesome what we can potentially bring to the healthcare system of the future. Matter of fact, it's actually on us to make a difference, right? It really is.

Joni: 

It is.

Mo: 

And for nurse leaders, leaders who are listening, don't you dare listen to anybody who told you that you cannot do it because you are a nurse. I will tell you, the sky's the limit. If you can dream it, if you can conceptualize it, go get it. Go get it. Now, I will tell you, I would never tell you that it's going to be easy, but those stumbling blocks would make you into a better person, a better leader. And Joni, if by chance you fall, if by chance you fall while you're doing, you better get your nurse self back up, dust yourself off and go back at it again. Because you are going to be told that it won't work. But don't you listen, you go do it. And Joni, right now, I can tell you that somebody is going to be listening to this, and you and I from this podcast have just made the next founder just made the next CEO just made the next owner. I can promise you that.

Joni: 

Oh, Mo, my goodness, I feel like I can do anything. I'm going to keep this podcast just part of my favorite list and just listen to Dr. Mo whenever I need some encouragement. So Mo, I know that after this podcast, people are going to want to connect with you. So how can people follow or connect with you, follow your work, find more of your work, fund your work, all of the things?

Mo: 

Yeah, so I mean, I'm on LinkedIn and everybody you just put in Dr. Mo and your LinkedIn handle, you would definitely be able to find me there. I think they tell me that I am on Instagram and it's Dr. Mo Wellness. I'm on TikTok at Dr. Mo Wellness as well. I don't mind people emailing me for you entrepreneurs, your nurses who just need some advice. You definitely can email me. I am at drmbrownlee@wellnesshome.org. I am there for my colleagues if they need anything because let me just tell you where we’re going over the next decade is going to be so awesome.

Joni: 

Agreed. Agreed. Excellent. Everyone, be sure to find Dr. Maurice “Mo” Brownlee on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, or email him to continue conversations. Mo, I love your focus, the care you build for people, innovating systems and structures and processes along the way. So thank you so much for sharing your insight with us today. 

Mo: 

Thank you for having me. And I tell you what, Joni, keep doing what you're doing. Keep doing what you're doing.

Joni: 

Thank you, sir. 

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